Comments on: Deep Forgiveness http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/ Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:10:24 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Valerie (Kyriosity) http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-52076 Valerie (Kyriosity) Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:18:25 +0000 http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-52076 Oh, one more thought: To help understand David's attitude toward his enemies we can't forget the places where he says (yes, in the midst of pleading for justice), "When they were sick or in trouble, I bent over backwards to take care of them and I deeply grieved with them." Also, remember how he had Saul in his power, but did not take it upon himself to mete out punishment. He did something similar when Absalom rebelled, fleeing rather than fighting his own son. Forgiveness isn't pretending that sin isn't sin (like liberals think). See my comment under the "Finding Forgiveness"</a> post -- sin is refusing to demand that I collect on the sinner's debt to me, but I can still pray for relief from the sinner's ongoing sin, even if it's to the point of asking God to punish him. Oh, one more thought: To help understand David’s attitude toward his enemies we can’t forget the places where he says (yes, in the midst of pleading for justice), “When they were sick or in trouble, I bent over backwards to take care of them and I deeply grieved with them.” Also, remember how he had Saul in his power, but did not take it upon himself to mete out punishment. He did something similar when Absalom rebelled, fleeing rather than fighting his own son.

Forgiveness isn’t pretending that sin isn’t sin (like liberals think). See my comment under the “Finding Forgiveness” post — sin is refusing to demand that I collect on the sinner’s debt to me, but I can still pray for relief from the sinner’s ongoing sin, even if it’s to the point of asking God to punish him.

]]> By: JAT http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-51939 JAT Sat, 19 Apr 2008 03:46:50 +0000 http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-51939 Well, then, let's try some other examples: Ps 35:1-9 1 Contend, O LORD, with those who contend with me; fight against those who fight against me. 2 Take hold of buckler and shield, and rise up for my help. 3 Draw also the spear and the battle-axe to meet those who pursue me; say to my soul, "I am your salvation." 4 Let those be ashamed and dishonored who seek my life; let those be turned back and humiliated who devise evil against me. 5 Let them be like chaff before the wind, with the angel of the LORD driving them on. 6 Let their way be dark and slippery, with the angel of the LORD pursuing them. 7 For without cause they hid their net for me; without cause they dug a pit for my soul. 8 Let destruction come upon him unawares; and let the net which he hid catch himself; into that very destruction let him fall. 9 And my soul shall rejoice in the LORD; it shall exult in His salvation. (NAS) or, Ps 55:12-16 12 For it is not an enemy who reproaches me, then I could bear it; nor is it one who hates me who has exalted himself against me, then I could hide myself from him. 13 But it is you, a man my equal, My companion and my familiar friend. 14 We who had sweet fellowship together, walked in the house of God in the throng. 15 Let death come deceitfully upon them; let them go down alive to Sheol, for evil is in their dwelling, in their midst. 16 As for me, I shall call upon God, and the LORD will save me. (NAS) or, Ps 109:1-21 1 O God of my praise, do not be silent! 2 For they have opened the wicked and deceitful mouth against me; they have spoken against me with a lying tongue. 3 They have also surrounded me with words of hatred, and fought against me without cause. 4 In return for my love they act as my accusers; but I am in prayer. 5 Thus they have repaid me evil for good, and hatred for my love. 6 Appoint a wicked man over him; and let an accuser stand at his right hand. 7 When he is judged, let him come forth guilty; and let his prayer become sin. 8 Let his days be few; let another take his office. 9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow. 10 Let his children wander about and beg; and let them seek sustenance far from their ruined homes. 11 Let the creditor seize all that he has; and let strangers plunder the product of his labor. 12 Let there be none to extend lovingkindness to him, nor any to be gracious to his fatherless children. 13 Let his posterity be cut off; in a following generation let their name be blotted out. 14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD, and do not let the sin of his mother be blotted out. 15 Let them be before the LORD continually, that He may cut off their memory from the earth; 16 Because he did not remember to show lovingkindness, but persecuted the afflicted and needy man, and the despondent in heart, to put them to death. 17 He also loved cursing, so it came to him; and he did not delight in blessing, so it was far from him. 18 But he clothed himself with cursing as with his garment, and it entered into his body like water, and like oil into his bones. 19 Let it be to him as a garment with which he covers himself, and for a belt with which he constantly girds himself. 20 Let this be the reward of my accusers from the LORD, and of those who speak evil against my soul. 21 But Thou, O GOD, the Lord, deal kindly with me for Thy name's sake; because Thy lovingkindness is good, deliver me; (NAS) Similar sentiments could be supplied but I think you get my point. I'm not trying to be obnoxious here. Just asking how this fits into the context of forgiveness that you have put forth. Thanks... Well, then, let’s try some other examples:

Ps 35:1-9
1 Contend, O LORD, with those who contend with me; fight against those who fight against me.
2 Take hold of buckler and shield, and rise up for my help.
3 Draw also the spear and the battle-axe to meet those who pursue me; say to my soul, “I am your salvation.”
4 Let those be ashamed and dishonored who seek my life; let those be turned back and humiliated who devise evil against me.
5 Let them be like chaff before the wind, with the angel of the LORD driving them on.
6 Let their way be dark and slippery, with the angel of the LORD pursuing them.
7 For without cause they hid their net for me; without cause they dug a pit for my soul.
8 Let destruction come upon him unawares; and let the net which he hid catch himself; into that very destruction let him fall.
9 And my soul shall rejoice in the LORD; it shall exult in His salvation.
(NAS)

or,

Ps 55:12-16
12 For it is not an enemy who reproaches me, then I could bear it; nor is it one who hates me who has exalted himself against me, then I could hide myself from him.
13 But it is you, a man my equal, My companion and my familiar friend.
14 We who had sweet fellowship together, walked in the house of God in the throng.
15 Let death come deceitfully upon them; let them go down alive to Sheol, for evil is in their dwelling, in their midst.
16 As for me, I shall call upon God, and the LORD will save me.
(NAS)

or,

Ps 109:1-21
1 O God of my praise, do not be silent!
2 For they have opened the wicked and deceitful mouth against me; they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
3 They have also surrounded me with words of hatred, and fought against me without cause.
4 In return for my love they act as my accusers; but I am in prayer.
5 Thus they have repaid me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
6 Appoint a wicked man over him; and let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is judged, let him come forth guilty; and let his prayer become sin.
8 Let his days be few; let another take his office.
9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
10 Let his children wander about and beg; and let them seek sustenance far from their ruined homes.
11 Let the creditor seize all that he has; and let strangers plunder the product of his labor.
12 Let there be none to extend lovingkindness to him, nor any to be gracious to his fatherless children.
13 Let his posterity be cut off; in a following generation let their name be blotted out.
14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD, and do not let the sin of his mother be blotted out.
15 Let them be before the LORD continually, that He may cut off their memory from the earth;
16 Because he did not remember to show lovingkindness, but persecuted the afflicted and needy man, and the despondent in heart, to put them to death.
17 He also loved cursing, so it came to him; and he did not delight in blessing, so it was far from him.
18 But he clothed himself with cursing as with his garment, and it entered into his body like water, and like oil into his bones.
19 Let it be to him as a garment with which he covers himself, and for a belt with which he constantly girds himself.
20 Let this be the reward of my accusers from the LORD, and of those who speak evil against my soul.
21 But Thou, O GOD, the Lord, deal kindly with me for Thy name’s sake; because Thy lovingkindness is good, deliver me;
(NAS)

Similar sentiments could be supplied but I think you get my point. I’m not trying to be obnoxious here. Just asking how this fits into the context of forgiveness that you have put forth. Thanks…

]]> By: Valerie (Kyriosity) http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-51889 Valerie (Kyriosity) Sat, 19 Apr 2008 01:56:37 +0000 http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-51889 JAT. there's a difference between being offended that God has been offended and being offended that I have been offended. The first reflects humility and honor toward Him; the second, pride toward ourselves. JAT. there’s a difference between being offended that God has been offended and being offended that I have been offended. The first reflects humility and honor toward Him; the second, pride toward ourselves.

]]> By: JAT http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-51849 JAT Sat, 19 Apr 2008 00:33:15 +0000 http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-51849 How does this kind of thing (this is only one example) fit into the context of forgiveness? Ps 139:21-24 21 Do I not hate those who hate Thee, O LORD? And do I not loathe those who rise up against Thee? 22 I hate them with the utmost hatred; they have become my enemies. 23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; try me and know my anxious thoughts; 24 And see if there be any hurtful way in me, and lead me in the everlasting way. (NAS) How does this kind of thing (this is only one example) fit into the context of forgiveness?

Ps 139:21-24
21 Do I not hate those who hate Thee, O LORD? And do I not loathe those who rise up against Thee?
22 I hate them with the utmost hatred; they have become my enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; try me and know my anxious thoughts;
24 And see if there be any hurtful way in me, and lead me in the everlasting way.
(NAS)

]]> By: Luma http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-48010 Luma Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:02:24 +0000 http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-48010 Nancy.... Just wanted you to know that I'm just shooing away down here. At one point this week I was dusting and those pestering thoughts came and after a few minutes I saw this bug or something fly by my dresser mirror so I went after it to kill it when all of a sudden it went off in my head "oh, I need to shoo that stuff I was just allowing my brain to fester on." I started laughing at how beautiful God's Providence is. He even sent me a little bug to fly right by me to remind me to shoo. After that I couldn't find that flying thing, it had disappeared. :-) Nancy…. Just wanted you to know that I’m just shooing away down here. At one point this week I was dusting and those pestering thoughts came and after a few minutes I saw this bug or something fly by my dresser mirror so I went after it to kill it when all of a sudden it went off in my head “oh, I need to shoo that stuff I was just allowing my brain to fester on.” I started laughing at how beautiful God’s Providence is. He even sent me a little bug to fly right by me to remind me to shoo. After that I couldn’t find that flying thing, it had disappeared. :-)

]]> By: ukrainiac http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-47941 ukrainiac Sat, 12 Apr 2008 06:52:25 +0000 http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-47941 ‘Dear God, please harbor toward me all the thoughts I harbor toward others.’ That one sentence just stopped me in my tracks. Oh, that we might examine our own hearts on a regular basis and truly repent of our sinful thoughts and desires. Thanks for a great post... ‘Dear God, please harbor toward me all the thoughts I harbor toward others.’ That one sentence just stopped me in my tracks.

Oh, that we might examine our own hearts on a regular basis and truly repent of our sinful thoughts and desires.

Thanks for a great post…

]]> By: Valerie (Kyriosity) http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-47836 Valerie (Kyriosity) Sat, 12 Apr 2008 02:43:22 +0000 http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-47836 JAT, I suspect one could go through David's Psalms and find requests that correspond fairly well with the petitions in the Lord's prayer. Re the petition about forgiveness, David certainly needed to ask for it, as he was a Class A sinner. On the flip side, he often pleaded with God for relief from his enemies, noting that when <i>they</i> were ill or troubled, he had grieved and sought to help them, but they hardly returned the favor. In his behavior toward Saul we see that he was willing to show grace and mercy even toward one who was trying to kill him. Does that get at what you were looking for? JAT, I suspect one could go through David’s Psalms and find requests that correspond fairly well with the petitions in the Lord’s prayer. Re the petition about forgiveness, David certainly needed to ask for it, as he was a Class A sinner. On the flip side, he often pleaded with God for relief from his enemies, noting that when they were ill or troubled, he had grieved and sought to help them, but they hardly returned the favor. In his behavior toward Saul we see that he was willing to show grace and mercy even toward one who was trying to kill him.

Does that get at what you were looking for?

]]> By: Kelly http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-47625 Kelly Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:23:14 +0000 http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-47625 I understand how crucial forgiveness is and that we are always called to forgive as we have been forgiven. But I still wonder if there is a difference between forgiveness and actual restoration of the relationship? I have heard it said that reconciliation is dependent upon the proper repentance of the offending party. We have extended family members who profess Christ but continue to behave in rude and unkind ways on a regular basis. They have been approached about their offensive behavior but refuse to admit any wrongdoing or to change their behavior. I realize we must extend forgiveness but is it ever appropriate to decline to fellowship with family members who refuse to repent and continue to offend? I understand how crucial forgiveness is and that we are always called to forgive as we have been forgiven. But I still wonder if there is a difference between forgiveness and actual restoration of the relationship? I have heard it said that reconciliation is dependent upon the proper repentance of the offending party. We have extended family members who profess Christ but continue to behave in rude and unkind ways on a regular basis. They have been approached about their offensive behavior but refuse to admit any wrongdoing or to change their behavior. I realize we must extend forgiveness but is it ever appropriate to decline to fellowship with family members who refuse to repent and continue to offend?

]]> By: JAT http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-47619 JAT Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:55:59 +0000 http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-47619 Do you suppose King David could have prayed the Lord's Prayer? Do you suppose King David could have prayed the Lord’s Prayer?

]]> By: Alice http://www.feminagirls.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-47215 Alice Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:22:57 +0000 http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2008/04/08/deep-forgiveness/#comment-47215 Hi! I think Nancy already answered Stacy's question. I liked the blog post very much. I believe sometimes we sin and we aren't truly sorry because we justify our actions. Then much later (God is so merciful and patient with us) we end up reaping what we sowed. Only then do we realize the hurt we inflicted upon another and start to think of the damage we did to another brother or sister in Christ. Nancy's post: But Jesus has given us fair warning that we do not receive forgiveness on our terms. Not at all. In the Lord’s prayer, we are taught to say this to God — ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors’ (Matt. 6:12). ‘Dear God, please harbor toward me all the thoughts I harbor toward others.’ Do the words stick in the throat? ‘So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart’ (Matt. 18:21-35). Forgiving others is not optional. This is the very heart of the gospel message.”************** Hi! I think Nancy already answered Stacy’s question. I liked the blog post very much. I believe sometimes we sin and we aren’t truly sorry because we justify our actions. Then much later (God is so merciful and patient with us) we end up reaping what we sowed. Only then do we realize the hurt we inflicted upon another and start to think of the damage we did to another brother or sister in Christ.

Nancy’s post:
But Jesus has given us fair warning that we do not receive forgiveness on our terms. Not at all. In the Lord’s prayer, we are taught to say this to God — ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors’ (Matt. 6:12). ‘Dear God, please harbor toward me all the thoughts I harbor toward others.’ Do the words stick in the throat? ‘So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart’ (Matt. 18:21-35). Forgiving others is not optional. This is the very heart of the gospel message.”**************

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