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	<title>Comments on: Fruitfulness</title>
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		<title>By: Jackie</title>
		<link>http://www.feminagirls.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-325715</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 10:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-325715</guid>
		<description>Thank you for taking the time to reply with a more thorough explanation of your reasons for what you wrote.  And, thanks for your patience with me.  I recognize this is a complex issue on which people (even Christian people) disagree.  And, I do appreciate that untold numbers of people have gotten themselves into ethical quandaries by not thinking through the ramifications of freezing too many fertilized eggs.  However, I want to point out that though those people are out there, there are also people who have thought through those ramifications and have determined to freeze no more embryos than they are prepared to implant and implant no more than they are reasonably and safely prepared to carry in a given pregnancy.  When each embryo is given a fair chance at life, the quandary over what to do with &quot;left-over&quot; embryos disappears.  

I agree that God oversees conception.  I guess I just don&#039;t see that the IVF process challenges that assumption because God is still overseeing--He is still the author of life.  IVF doesn&#039;t allow us to get around God--we are still utterly at his mercy to bless the effort.  

Just wanted to offer a different perspective on what I think is a tricky issue.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for taking the time to reply with a more thorough explanation of your reasons for what you wrote.  And, thanks for your patience with me.  I recognize this is a complex issue on which people (even Christian people) disagree.  And, I do appreciate that untold numbers of people have gotten themselves into ethical quandaries by not thinking through the ramifications of freezing too many fertilized eggs.  However, I want to point out that though those people are out there, there are also people who have thought through those ramifications and have determined to freeze no more embryos than they are prepared to implant and implant no more than they are reasonably and safely prepared to carry in a given pregnancy.  When each embryo is given a fair chance at life, the quandary over what to do with &#8220;left-over&#8221; embryos disappears.  </p>
<p>I agree that God oversees conception.  I guess I just don&#8217;t see that the IVF process challenges that assumption because God is still overseeing&#8211;He is still the author of life.  IVF doesn&#8217;t allow us to get around God&#8211;we are still utterly at his mercy to bless the effort.  </p>
<p>Just wanted to offer a different perspective on what I think is a tricky issue.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy Ann</title>
		<link>http://www.feminagirls.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-325482</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-325482</guid>
		<description>Jackie,
Thank you for both your comments. As a pastor for over thirty years, my husband has had to counsel people who have gotten themselves into ethical dilemmas, one of those being what to do with the extra frozen fertilized eggs that they didn&#039;t use. This is what I mean by making your life needlessly complicated. When God causes a miscarriage, a woman may grieve over the loss, but she does not need to feel personal guilt. God oversees conception, opening and closing wombs. I appreciate the lawful help that modern medicine can provide when it does not step out of its realm and try to play God.
When a physician places several fertilized eggs into a womb, everyone knows that they are not all expected to make it. Many of the multiples born today are the result of more eggs surviving than planned. So even if the fertilized eggs are not flushed, many  don&#039;t survive the implantation process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jackie,<br />
Thank you for both your comments. As a pastor for over thirty years, my husband has had to counsel people who have gotten themselves into ethical dilemmas, one of those being what to do with the extra frozen fertilized eggs that they didn&#8217;t use. This is what I mean by making your life needlessly complicated. When God causes a miscarriage, a woman may grieve over the loss, but she does not need to feel personal guilt. God oversees conception, opening and closing wombs. I appreciate the lawful help that modern medicine can provide when it does not step out of its realm and try to play God.<br />
When a physician places several fertilized eggs into a womb, everyone knows that they are not all expected to make it. Many of the multiples born today are the result of more eggs surviving than planned. So even if the fertilized eggs are not flushed, many  don&#8217;t survive the implantation process.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackie</title>
		<link>http://www.feminagirls.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-325426</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-325426</guid>
		<description>I just reread my comment this morning and was surprised that it sounded far more caustic than I intended (I didn&#039;t actually intend it to be caustic at all!).  I should have been more cautious before submitting it.  My concerns still stand, but I&#039;m afraid it didn&#039;t come across very respectfully and for that I&#039;m sorry.  My desire is to be respectful in all my communication, whether face-to-face or through an online discussion board. Please accept my apology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just reread my comment this morning and was surprised that it sounded far more caustic than I intended (I didn&#8217;t actually intend it to be caustic at all!).  I should have been more cautious before submitting it.  My concerns still stand, but I&#8217;m afraid it didn&#8217;t come across very respectfully and for that I&#8217;m sorry.  My desire is to be respectful in all my communication, whether face-to-face or through an online discussion board. Please accept my apology.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackie</title>
		<link>http://www.feminagirls.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-325194</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-325194</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve been waiting for somebody to take you to task on this, so I&#039;ll step up and be the one!  

&quot;But once you allow the professionals to start fertilizing little eggs in a petri dish, you are playing God. And you are introducing ethical dilemmas into an area where you are seriously over your head.&quot;

Can I just ask, with due respect, what makes this ethical dilemma over our heads?  God has given us minds to use and his Spirit to guide us.  The suggestion that this is &quot;over our heads&quot; seems to imply that laziness is okay (i.e.., the absence of rigorous examination of a difficult issue).  It tells me that what is comfortable is more important than what is true (i.e., most of us FEEL uncomfortable with IVF because it seems so invasive, impersonal, etc., but is it, in truth different from many other life-giving medical advances we regularly benefit from?  Maybe, maybe not.  The issue demands careful study, not hasty, unsupported condemnation.)   The direction to &quot;keep your life simple&quot;, is, of course, in many areas good advice.  However, when it refers to searching out matters that require careful, Spirit-guided consideration, I think it is unhelpful.  &quot;Keep it simple&quot; seems to me to be a veiled way of saying, &quot;Don&#039;t bother trying to understand something hard, especially if it&#039;s something you&#039;re not used to&quot;.  How does that aid in the effort toward wisdom and understanding?  

And, just for clarity&#039;s sake, can I emphasize that IVF does not in any way REQUIRE the flushing of fertilized eggs?  I know you didn&#039;t say that it did, but I think some might be led to believe that it does after reading this post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve been waiting for somebody to take you to task on this, so I&#8217;ll step up and be the one!  </p>
<p>&#8220;But once you allow the professionals to start fertilizing little eggs in a petri dish, you are playing God. And you are introducing ethical dilemmas into an area where you are seriously over your head.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can I just ask, with due respect, what makes this ethical dilemma over our heads?  God has given us minds to use and his Spirit to guide us.  The suggestion that this is &#8220;over our heads&#8221; seems to imply that laziness is okay (i.e.., the absence of rigorous examination of a difficult issue).  It tells me that what is comfortable is more important than what is true (i.e., most of us FEEL uncomfortable with IVF because it seems so invasive, impersonal, etc., but is it, in truth different from many other life-giving medical advances we regularly benefit from?  Maybe, maybe not.  The issue demands careful study, not hasty, unsupported condemnation.)   The direction to &#8220;keep your life simple&#8221;, is, of course, in many areas good advice.  However, when it refers to searching out matters that require careful, Spirit-guided consideration, I think it is unhelpful.  &#8220;Keep it simple&#8221; seems to me to be a veiled way of saying, &#8220;Don&#8217;t bother trying to understand something hard, especially if it&#8217;s something you&#8217;re not used to&#8221;.  How does that aid in the effort toward wisdom and understanding?  </p>
<p>And, just for clarity&#8217;s sake, can I emphasize that IVF does not in any way REQUIRE the flushing of fertilized eggs?  I know you didn&#8217;t say that it did, but I think some might be led to believe that it does after reading this post.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.feminagirls.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-324882</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 01:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-324882</guid>
		<description>Our family began in 1994 and it grew by one Chinese baby in 2005.  For years, my husband and I struggled with &quot;playing God&quot; through adoption.  We worried that the proactive nature of adoption (vs. conception) would be taking matters into our own hands.  It was after learning more about God&#039;s heart for adoption, our own adoption as His children and his command to care for orphans (James 1:27) that we realized adoption was God&#039;s plan for our family.  There was no loss or grief that brought us to adoption.  There was only joy and excitement in the family God had intended for us.  We now have two daughters born in China and part of our family forever.  As an adoptive parent, I wish more couples would view adoption as a first choice... as God&#039;s Plan A instead of a backup when everything else fails.  Every child deserves to be hoped for instead of settled for.  I can assure you that regardless of how your children arrive, they will spur the work of sanctification in you as a parent.  But I have seen those that adopted for other reasons, so I do appreciate the caution for motives.   John Piper also addressed that in a video about singles adopting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our family began in 1994 and it grew by one Chinese baby in 2005.  For years, my husband and I struggled with &#8220;playing God&#8221; through adoption.  We worried that the proactive nature of adoption (vs. conception) would be taking matters into our own hands.  It was after learning more about God&#8217;s heart for adoption, our own adoption as His children and his command to care for orphans (James 1:27) that we realized adoption was God&#8217;s plan for our family.  There was no loss or grief that brought us to adoption.  There was only joy and excitement in the family God had intended for us.  We now have two daughters born in China and part of our family forever.  As an adoptive parent, I wish more couples would view adoption as a first choice&#8230; as God&#8217;s Plan A instead of a backup when everything else fails.  Every child deserves to be hoped for instead of settled for.  I can assure you that regardless of how your children arrive, they will spur the work of sanctification in you as a parent.  But I have seen those that adopted for other reasons, so I do appreciate the caution for motives.   John Piper also addressed that in a video about singles adopting.</p>
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		<title>By: Luma</title>
		<link>http://www.feminagirls.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-323650</link>
		<dc:creator>Luma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 13:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-323650</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Jen, that is beautiful encouragement. Your words apply to any idol we might hold up in our hearts and minds. The desire for that idol can be very strong and driving (again, no matter what it is). Often the desire for that idol makes us blind, especially if it&#039;s a good thing, to realize that it is indeed an idol and we have set our desire for it above our desire for God.

May the Lord richly bless you, Jen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Jen, that is beautiful encouragement. Your words apply to any idol we might hold up in our hearts and minds. The desire for that idol can be very strong and driving (again, no matter what it is). Often the desire for that idol makes us blind, especially if it&#8217;s a good thing, to realize that it is indeed an idol and we have set our desire for it above our desire for God.</p>
<p>May the Lord richly bless you, Jen.</p>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.feminagirls.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-323649</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 13:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-323649</guid>
		<description>Thank you, thank you, thank you Nancy and Jen! What wonderfully wise and encouraging words. This perspective has caused a weight to be lifted from my shoulders. 

This post has caused me to think about one of the wisest women I know, my great aunt Norma. Though I never really realized it until I was an adult, she had many afflictions throughout her life. Her mother died on Christmas Eve when she was eleven, she was single until she was thirty-five, she suffered one miscarriage and remained childless thereafter, her husband died relatively young after battling cancer for several years, and she has now been a widow living on her own for over twenty years. 

No one would ever guess any of these things upon meeting her, however. She is no complainer and has consistently throughout her life as you said Nancy, &quot;turned a profit on her circumstances.&quot; Single until age 35? Lived all over the US, befriending all kinds of women whom she is still in contact with today. Never had any children of her own? Opened up her home to all of her nieces and nephews and their subsequent children, making them all feel like her own children and grandchildren. Widowed at a young age? Goes out to lunch every Sunday with newly-widowed women at her church and serves to encourage them. Her sister, my great aunt Lorraine, had this same perspective on life too. I won&#039;t go into detail except to say that she never married but did great work for the Salvation Army and made many, many beautiful quilts in her day. 

So thank you again, Nancy and Jen, for these reminders! I hope to possess as much wisdom as the two of you and my two great aunts one day. =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, thank you, thank you Nancy and Jen! What wonderfully wise and encouraging words. This perspective has caused a weight to be lifted from my shoulders. </p>
<p>This post has caused me to think about one of the wisest women I know, my great aunt Norma. Though I never really realized it until I was an adult, she had many afflictions throughout her life. Her mother died on Christmas Eve when she was eleven, she was single until she was thirty-five, she suffered one miscarriage and remained childless thereafter, her husband died relatively young after battling cancer for several years, and she has now been a widow living on her own for over twenty years. </p>
<p>No one would ever guess any of these things upon meeting her, however. She is no complainer and has consistently throughout her life as you said Nancy, &#8220;turned a profit on her circumstances.&#8221; Single until age 35? Lived all over the US, befriending all kinds of women whom she is still in contact with today. Never had any children of her own? Opened up her home to all of her nieces and nephews and their subsequent children, making them all feel like her own children and grandchildren. Widowed at a young age? Goes out to lunch every Sunday with newly-widowed women at her church and serves to encourage them. Her sister, my great aunt Lorraine, had this same perspective on life too. I won&#8217;t go into detail except to say that she never married but did great work for the Salvation Army and made many, many beautiful quilts in her day. </p>
<p>So thank you again, Nancy and Jen, for these reminders! I hope to possess as much wisdom as the two of you and my two great aunts one day. =)</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy Ann</title>
		<link>http://www.feminagirls.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-323550</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 04:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-323550</guid>
		<description>Jen,
The Lord bless you abundantly! And thanks for blessing us.
With love,
Nancy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jen,<br />
The Lord bless you abundantly! And thanks for blessing us.<br />
With love,<br />
Nancy</p>
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		<title>By: Valerie (Kyriosity)</title>
		<link>http://www.feminagirls.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-323477</link>
		<dc:creator>Valerie (Kyriosity)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 00:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-323477</guid>
		<description>Jen&#039;s comment brings up another thought in my mind. I don&#039;t see a particularly clear connection between specific afflictions and specific lessons. But that&#039;s OK. Because the big ol&#039; TRUST GOD lesson is there at the heart of that not knowing all the whys and wherefores.

(And if anybody else shares my predilection for wondering about phrases like &quot;whys and wherefores,&quot; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-why1.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this will satisfy your curiosity&lt;/a&gt;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jen&#8217;s comment brings up another thought in my mind. I don&#8217;t see a particularly clear connection between specific afflictions and specific lessons. But that&#8217;s OK. Because the big ol&#8217; TRUST GOD lesson is there at the heart of that not knowing all the whys and wherefores.</p>
<p>(And if anybody else shares my predilection for wondering about phrases like &#8220;whys and wherefores,&#8221; <a href="http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-why1.htm" rel="nofollow">this will satisfy your curiosity</a>.)</p>
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		<title>By: jen carlson</title>
		<link>http://www.feminagirls.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-323421</link>
		<dc:creator>jen carlson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://femina.reformedblogs.com/2009/09/25/fruitfulness/#comment-323421</guid>
		<description>Thank you again, Mrs. Wilson!

For what it&#039;s worth, ladies, here are my thoughts.  The Lord custom-builds our trials.  He knows our frames. He promises grace every day, and never gives what can&#039;t be handled through that grace.  As one who is in year six of infertility, I am acquainted with every emotion this affliction offers.  But the Lord is sweeter to me because of it.  Every year that goes by, the list-of-things-learned becomes more beautiful as it lenghtens.  But the bottom line (and most important) is, my life isn&#039;t about me.  It isn&#039;t my life at all - it&#039;s Christ&#039;s life in me.  It&#039;s His story, not mine, and if He omits children from the screenplay, will I pout?  Will I kick and scream, throw a pity party, tell God goodbye?  Unthinkable.  The only appropriate reaction left, then, is joy.  Not only do I not want to curse God&#039;s work, I want to EXTOL it!  

As encouragement for any who need it, God delights in giving grace for this.  He DOES give grace to throw down the idol and surrender it to Him.  Don&#039;t grasp for it; let it go.  Though you are yet (and maybe always) a family of two, you are free to live robustly in His joy.  And if you ask for joy, He WILL give it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you again, Mrs. Wilson!</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, ladies, here are my thoughts.  The Lord custom-builds our trials.  He knows our frames. He promises grace every day, and never gives what can&#8217;t be handled through that grace.  As one who is in year six of infertility, I am acquainted with every emotion this affliction offers.  But the Lord is sweeter to me because of it.  Every year that goes by, the list-of-things-learned becomes more beautiful as it lenghtens.  But the bottom line (and most important) is, my life isn&#8217;t about me.  It isn&#8217;t my life at all &#8211; it&#8217;s Christ&#8217;s life in me.  It&#8217;s His story, not mine, and if He omits children from the screenplay, will I pout?  Will I kick and scream, throw a pity party, tell God goodbye?  Unthinkable.  The only appropriate reaction left, then, is joy.  Not only do I not want to curse God&#8217;s work, I want to EXTOL it!  </p>
<p>As encouragement for any who need it, God delights in giving grace for this.  He DOES give grace to throw down the idol and surrender it to Him.  Don&#8217;t grasp for it; let it go.  Though you are yet (and maybe always) a family of two, you are free to live robustly in His joy.  And if you ask for joy, He WILL give it.</p>
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